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Thread: EFR, First Aid, Oxygen Class

  1. #11
    Barracuda Noob's Avatar
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    Dan O2 was one of the best classes I have taken to date. Rescue is probably the second. I like the Dan O2 because it goes into depth of why these things happen and not a brief overview.

  2. #12
    Grouper
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    I know I'm restarting an older thread again but with most CPR classes teaching the new hands only approach, is there or should there be a scuba specific CPR program at the dive shops? I remember in rescue class there were times we were to give rescue breaths as we were towing someone back to shore; be pretty hard to do hands only CPR while floating on the surface.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by russp View Post
    I know I'm restarting an older thread again but with most CPR classes teaching the new hands only approach, is there or should there be a scuba specific CPR program at the dive shops? I remember in rescue class there were times we were to give rescue breaths as we were towing someone back to shore; be pretty hard to do hands only CPR while floating on the surface.
    I cannot speak for other agencies but PADI breaks things into multiple courses.

    • Emergency First Responder (EFR): this is very similar to St. John's Ambulance or Red Cross EFR.
    • Oxygen Provider: this is fairly scuba specific and should be taken from a scuba shop.
    • Rescue Diver: this course fills in the gaps that EFR left. Bringing a victim from depth, rescue breaths, getting someone out of the water, etc.


    In other words, Rescue Diver teaches you how to get the victim to a location you can perform regular EFR. That said, I did learn a lot about scuba related injuries and how to deal with them in my EFR course (e.g. jellyfish stings).
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  4. #14
    Grouper
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    When I did NAUI rescue here in Carrollton, we first had to take the NAUI 1st aid (which included CPR and AED) and DAN o2 courses and then apply them in the rescue training. At the time, CPR included rescue breathing.

  5. #15
    Megalodon
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    Being a CPR instructor from way-way-WAY back, I honsetly can not see a good way to even attempt effective CPR in the water. I just don't think it can be done. I believe you could do some poor resemblance of CPR but it would not be effective. In addition to being ineffective, it would definitely hinder getting the victim back to the boat or to shore so waiting until you're there to do actual compressions would still be the best course of action.

    As for a SCUBA specific CPR course, I don't think one is needed. Rescue breaths, compressions, 911 activation etc is really the smae except for the clother that are really hard to get off the victim. Rescue breathing is still tought, just not part of the current lay public no pulse, no breathing scenario. They are now teaching compression only CPR but rescue breathing after there is a return of circulation but no breathing.

    Even in EMS, we are looking at going to no ventilation CPR for the first 10 minutes of a code, just oxygen per non-rebreathing mask.

    I once saved a man in Wichita just to watch him dive...(inventor)

  6. #16
    Guppy
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    Waiting on my LDS to call me , so i can do my EFR this spring.
    Then it's on to Rescue.
    Can't wait, that class looks like so much fun.
    AOW - Nitrox

  7. #17
    Grouper
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    Quote Originally Posted by russp View Post
    I know I'm restarting an older thread again but with most CPR classes teaching the new hands only approach, is there or should there be a scuba specific CPR program at the dive shops? I remember in rescue class there were times we were to give rescue breaths as we were towing someone back to shore; be pretty hard to do hands only CPR while floating on the surface.
    I just took the American Heart Association Heartsaver First Aid/CPR/AED course last month. With regards to hands only CPR, the course stressed that the traditional approach using compressions and rescue breaths was the preferred method but that hands only was perfectly acceptable if you weren't willing or able for whatever reason to administer rescue breaths.

    There is no effective way to administer compressions in the water. I was taught in Rescue and DM training that rescue breaths could be administered in the water if warranted but that the immediate need is to get the victim out of the water so CPR can be employed.

  8. #18
    Grouper
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    As others have stated in water CPR would be ineffective. Getting a person out of the water the fastest way possible to start CPR is the best method. Everything is pretty much going to CPR only as most people do not have access to oxygen and it has been proven that get circulation is the best course of action as oxygen is still in the blood.
    I do carry a medical oxygen cyliner with me along with some other essential items to have handy. I just hope I never have to use it at any point.
    Lets see, to dive or not to dive? Well that is a stupid question, DIVE, DIVE, DIVE, and then DIVE some more as long as it is safe!!!!!

  9. #19
    Shark snagel's Avatar
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    I'm the only one out of our 4 divers that has done the 02 (except wife was a nurse for 15 years). My buddy one day asked me to show him what to do with the thing just in case I'm the victim. Made me kinda think, hey I took the course to help others...what about me?

    Snagel

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by russp View Post
    When I did NAUI rescue here in Carrollton, we first had to take the NAUI 1st aid (which included CPR and AED) and DAN o2 courses and then apply them in the rescue training. At the time, CPR included rescue breathing.
    The PADI Rescue Diver requires you to have your EFR (first aid, secondary care, CPR, AED). There is a little knowledge of supplying oxygen but not the full blown O2 Provider which DAN and PADI provide.

    I believe PADI breaks it into the three different parts (EFR, O2 Provider, Rescue Diver) because it makes sense. You need scuba knowledge to do Rescue Diver plus you need EFR. MANY people get EFR training from outside agencies like St. John's or Red Cross. If you don't have it, PADI will provide it but it doesn't make sense to make people take the PADI course if they already have the training.

    The O2 Provider course is really overkill. If you want to be an O2 Provider you need the equipment and it needs to be serviced annually. This means servicing the regulator, dumping the oxygen, visual inspection, 5 year hydro, re-fill the cylinder annually (after the visual inspection). This is an added cost most aren't willing to bare.

    In my area, if you go on a dive it is usually a boat dive. The boat crew have oxygen and training to use it (by law). If you are on a trip with a dive club or shop they usually bring oxygen and someone who knows how to use it. My shop teaches O2 Provider. If we go diving we bring the oxygen because we know we'll be dumping it if we don't use it by end of year.

    I didn't get my O2 Provider until I became a DM. That is just because I might be the guy from the shop who brings the oxygen now.

    Everything everyone else has said is true. I took my mandatory retraining last year and the emphasis was on getting them out of the water as fast as possible then doing compressions, more and faster. We were still taught to pause to give a breathe but now it is 100 compressions before a breathe.

    Once you become a DM there is also a LOT of emphasis on trying to make sure you never need to use these skills. Prevent the accident before it happens. I have been fortunate so far and only had to use my training in non-dive related accidents.
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