DIY plumber

**scubadiver888** · 07-01-2011, 14:41

We are selling our house (already bought a new one). We had the bright idea to upgrade all the light fixtures, door hardware and plumbing fixtures. Removing all the bits from a pedestal sink is harder than it looks. Got the handles and spout off, got most of the drain off.

At one point I notice there is a lot of 'stuff' on the drain, including teflon tape wrapped on the OUTSIDE of the drain. This should have been my first clue something was wrong. I get the trap and lower pipes off, a little gunk but nothing gross smelling. Only have the flange in the bowl left. Cannot seem to get the nut loose. I finally get the nut loose and there is the strong smell of sewage.

By the look of it, whoever put this thing in couldn't figure out how to put it in properly and it leaked. So they just hit it with everything they had available. Adhesive, silicone, teflon tape and who knows what else. Between the bowl and the flank should have been filled with plumbing putty but instead it was full of rancid gunk. I think the gunk has seized the flange.

To remove the flange it SHOULD unscrew from the pipe below but it won't. Taking a break from it for now. Don't want to break the bowl but I have to get that flange out. Anyone have any suggestions? Off to google for a solution.

Google: "How to remove stuck flange after idiot installed it."

**Noob** · 07-01-2011, 16:08

I feel your pain. I ran into similiar issues remodeling my bathroom. A 4 yr old could have done better construction with a plastic hammer.

**scubadiver888** · 07-01-2011, 20:39

Looked at my set of tools. Decided to attach vise grips to the pipe (so when it spins it hits the pedestal and stops spinning) then took my linesman pliers, stuck them in the flange, pulled the pliers open and cranked it around. That did the trick. Got the flange loose. All the plumbing fixtures are now replaced.

**Straegen** · 07-01-2011, 21:09

I moved into my wifes Poulty built home from the 80s and I have run into one problem after another. Nothing on center, no straight lines, plumbing issues, siding issues, electrical and even structural issues. I have managed to fix or have fixed most of it but it is maddening. My father built homes for years so I know enough to get most jobs done but I am no expert. However after seeing how the "experts" fix problems, I realize better to do most jobs myself or at least oversee the work.

Shame more people in this country don't take pride in their work.

**scubadiver888** · 07-01-2011, 22:12

Seeing the same thing here in Canada. I must have looked at 100 houses when I was searching for my current house. Many of the houses were between 100 and 130 years old. You look at the parts which have been untouched and there is real pride in the craftsmanship. Each and every house had some sort of renovation and the renovators did enough damage to make me not want to buy the house. Anything built or renovated in the last 10 years has no sense of pride or caring.

Each and every faucet I replaced had poor water flow and mostly plastic parts. All the faucets I put in are brass, steel and chrome. Other than washers, there is no plastic in my faucets.

I think the problem is that you look at the faucets I removed and they look similar to the ones I put in. The average home owner doesn't understand the difference between quality materials and cheap knock offs.

I remember when I worked with my father, he would bring a wet and dry vacuum. He would put down craft paper. When we thread pipes he'd make sure there was a pan under the cutter to catch the dripping oil and metal shavings.

Last condo I purchased, one of the workers came in to fix a deficiency. He used my vacuum cleaner (not industrial rated) to clean up the mess. Better than the last guy who left my entire place covered in sawdust.

**Diver Kat** · 07-01-2011, 23:17

Yeah, I was amazed when I went to redo the light fixtures in both bathroom. Our house isn't all that old - around 16 years. The builder didn't use any electrical boxes to attach the old fixtures. The wires just ran up loose through the wall cavity and the light base was attached to the drywall with a couple screws. Didn't even use mollys or toggle bolts. I was surprised the things never fell off the wall! My dad was an electrician and took pride in his work. Always said to do it right, or just don't do it at all.

Tried to change out the faucets myself but however the builder installed them, there was no way I was getting them off. Finally had to hire a plumber to fight the things off. (I did however install a new kitchen disposal myself, so saved quite a few bucks there!)

**DiveHard** · 07-02-2011, 11:15

Oh the horror stories I could share... Been a Professional Plumber for going on 20 years.. (It's ok throw the wrench! Gotten good at dodging them! Feel your pain..) Mostly commercial and industrial with about a year in residential. Last home I bought was from the 80's building boom and had all the issues you are sharing. Biggest thing that bothers me is I would like the shoot the mechanical engineer who thought it was a good idea to run copper pipes under slab. On paper the concept appears sound. Reality it is not. When you have uncaring and under skilled workers unrolling improperly, kinking and not wrapping it properly you end up with problems for the homeowner years down the road. Heck there are plumbing companies that 90% of their work is fixing under slab leaks from other companies who put the crap in wrong to begin with!

As far as fixtures in homes it is all about the bottom line. Track home builders want the cheapest stuff. Simple as that. Don't care who's name it is building them. They all are that way. Plumbing is a major cost in a building. However a builder can cut plumbing costs they will. Commercial and industrial as well.

Pride, Workmanship... Not much to go around in the building industry as a whole. You would think that with the price of "Tradesman" (and I use that term loosely) going up that the quality and workmanship would as well. Nothing can be further than the truth. We export skilled labor to other countries to get it made cheaper. We import unskilled labor too this country to do the building we have for the same reason. Cheaper! Not for you and I the consumer.

I'm sure there are some of you that are like me. Old school.. Who know what the meaning of tradesman is... We network and find the best man for the job and keep their number close. I trade my skills to others in return for theirs. I need a mechanic. Know one. Need a carpenter. Know one. Electrician. My brother.. etc. Reputation will make and break a Tradesman. That is where you will find pride in their work. They provide for their families with it. Small town mentality is what made this country great. Not capitalism and the quest for wealth. THAT is our down fall... I digress... God Bless the little man..

**scubadiver888** · 07-02-2011, 17:39

My saga continues. The new fixture has a threaded stud and a long, brass nut (and other bits) in order to anchor the spout to the sink. I typically use my 13mm socket wrench to tight the nut to the threaded stud but this fixture have a REALLY long stud. So as I tighten the nut, the stud comes out the bottom of the nut and pushes the socket off the nut.

So I went to Home Depot to see if they had the necessary socket. I look at the sockets and don't see anything which will work. So I ask one of the staff if they have a 13mm, deep socket. He immediately gives me attitude and asks if I looked at the socket section. When I tell him yes he proceeds to tell me, in a VERY snarky voice, if it isn't over there they don't have it. He proceeds to tell me I have to custom order a wrench from Snap-On. The conversation continues and I end up telling him what I'm trying to do and mention "threaded stud". He proceeds to tell me that a stud is a 2x4 piece of lumber which fits in a wall and has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. At this point I start giving as much attitude as I'm getting. He then tries to tell me I need a basin wrench (he didn't know what it was called but he was sure it was what I needed). I point out that a basin wrench won't fit in this area because the supply lines for the hot and cold water are too close to the stud. I let him know I don't appreciate his attitude especially since he has no idea what he is talking about. He tells me I should go talk to the guys in plumbing. They'll have the tool there. I go to the plumbing section and get an even more dismissive attitude.

I left the store empty handed, drove across town to the Lowes. Edward takes the time to understand what I need. He finds a socket which works with the Kohler fixtures. He isn't sure if it will work because it is SAE and not metric. He gets a ladder and looks in some of the less used bins stored up top. Finds another socket. He gives me the two sockets, no charge and apologizes for not having a metric socket for the job. Spent $100 on other things I needed around the house.

The two socket didn't work. It was a little too small. So I'm still on the search for something which will let me get up in there and tighten that nut. Other options would be change the threaded stud too a shorter one or taking the sink off the wall so I have enough room to get my box wrench in there. I'd rather just get the socket which works. All the European plumbing fixtures seem to use 13mm nuts. So it would be good to have around.

**DiveHard** · 07-02-2011, 20:29

Wall hung sink... If a basin wrench won't work then I would take it off the wall. Replace faucet then rehang and caulk.. Without seeing the bottom of the fixture I could offer little more..

Home Depot and Lowe's... I hear the craziest things from the so called "plumbers" too the customers. Sometimes after over hearing an incident like yours 888 I will offer my advice. There have been some times I have been asked to take care of the problem for them. And have... It's a private thing so no need to charge the major fees to cover the overhead. Sometimes just being there to walk someone through it is all the help they need. Larger things I steer clear working on due to liability issues. A small thing like water filters, toilets, sinks, etc.. No prob..

**scubadiver888** · 07-02-2011, 21:06

DiveHard,

My problem is we bought a new house and need to sell this one ASAP. Anyone I know who is worth bringing in is too busy to help. By the time they have a moment to come help it will be too late. I just want to replace all the cheap fixtures with something which will last for decades.

Had another look at it. The area I'm working in is pretty tight. In a 1 inch diameter is the hot/cold supply line, the rod for the drain stopper, the washer and the threaded stud. It is all recessed between the back of the sink and the bowl. The clearance between the bowl and the threaded stud is around a 1/4 inch. The clearance between the hot/cold supply lines and the threaded stud is 1/8 of an inch.

The tool the guy at Lowe's gave me for Kohler faucets would have been perfect if it was metric rather than SAE. I'm going to talk to the shop I bought the faucet from and see if they have someone who can help or loan me the tool.