"Harmless" emissions

[MSilvia]

I saw an ad the other day for a new hydrogen-fueled car (probably a concept car) that was advertised as having only "harmless water" as emissions.

It made me wonder... if that technology was widely adopted, on the same scale as combustion engines today for the sake of argument, I don't think I'd be too quick to describe the effects of massive amounts of water vapor into the atmosphere as harmless... especially if what they say about global warming is true.

Can you imagine the kinds of storms that would happen on a significantly warmer and significantly more humid Earth? It makes me think electric and compressed air cars might really be the most sensible alternative energies for vehicles. After all, wouldn't ANY kind of emission just be trading one evil for another in the long run?

[BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)]

If you really want to get down to it: no cars is the best way to go. That ain't going to happen since we've structured our whole lives and almost all our infrastructure around our cars.

While w're on the subject of cars... why is it that we park on a driveway and drive on a parkway?

[MSilvia]

Originally Posted by BouzoukiJoe

If you really want to get down to it: no cars is the best way to go.

Oh, I don't know... I don't think cars are the problem. It's mostly just the way they're powered and lubricated.

Originally Posted by BouzoukiJoe

why is it that we park on a driveway and drive on a parkway?

'Cuz if you park on a parkway, I'm gonna flip you the bird.

[rox@ucf11]

Originally Posted by MSilvia

I saw an ad the other day for a new hydrogen-fueled car (probably a concept car) that was advertised as having only "harmless water" as emissions.

It made me wonder... if that technology was widely adopted, on the same scale as combustion engines today for the sake of argument, I don't think I'd be too quick to describe the effects of massive amounts of water vapor into the atmosphere as harmless... especially if what they say about global warming is true.

Can you imagine the kinds of storms that would happen on a significantly warmer and significantly more humid Earth? It makes me think electric and compressed air cars might really be the most sensible alternative energies for vehicles. After all, wouldn't ANY kind of emission just be trading one evil for another in the long run?

you produce hydrogen from water and in the end it combines back w/ o2 into water i believe

[MSilvia]

Originally Posted by rox@ucf11

you produce hydrogen from water and in the end it combines back w/ o2 into water i believe

You CAN produce hydrogen and oxygen from water (and it's great fun to explode), but I don't think electrolysis is the primary method being considered for creating the hydrogen for fuel cells.

[rox@ucf11]

good point, from what I have heard anyways producing it that way through electrolysis is not really viable as of now

[MSilvia]

It could work on a small scale, but it would require a lot of electricity and destroy a lot of liquid water to generate enough hydrogen that way for any kind of mass adoption. Doing it any other way I can think of add a lot of water to what is right now a more or less closed-cycle evaporation/condensation system.

[BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)]

Second law of thermodynamics requires that it take more energy to separate the H2 and O2 than you get from recombining them. Unless the whole process is way more efficient than burning fossil fuels it won't buy us that much.

[MSilvia]

Originally Posted by BouzoukiJoe

it won't buy us that much.

Buy us much? My whole point is that it looks to me like a calamity waiting to happen!

As far as the efficiency issue though, it could work (again, on a small scale) if, for example, hydroelectric, wind, or solar power was used to generate the electricity used to break up the water and produce hydrogen. It wouldn't have to be fast... if it took a week of running constantly to generate enough hydrogen to power a car intermitantly for a week, it wouldn't make any difference that it wasn't super efficient. It just might make a lot more sense to cut out the hydrogen middle man and just run the car on electricity.

[waytooslow]

what really needs to happen is a major reduction in world population, we have hit the tipping point.

Of course there will be this large rock careening through space that will take care of all our energy problems and other issues soon enough.