And now I wait...

[firstdive2005]

Havent had a car accidents ever. Still I buy insurance every year.
I also wear a seat belt just in case.
Quit shaking hands because I see too many people rubbing their nose.
I own a business the not shaking hands things can be tricky.
I'm careful what I eat. Want to be healthy looking in my casket.
Waited two and half hours in line for my H1n1 shot with the reg flu shot.
I haven't had a cold or flu in years. Got the insurance. Pretty sure this isnt like thalidamide.
I had great pains in my arms for 3 days. The nurse had a hard time sticking the needle in my arms, she said there too hard, relax a little. Then she rejammed it to the hilt. I just about screamed. It looked like I stuck another muscle over my own it stuck out so far. And wouldnt ya know it I bumped it on every door jamb I went through. O well I dive a lot in the winter a warm locations so I hope I dont contract anything. I wish every a safe flu season.

[crandf]

Correct me if I am wrong, but vaccines work by introducing your body to a dead or inactivated form of a dangerous disease agent, such that your body develops defenses that is effective against the dangerous disease without actually having to contract the disease first. So just-in-case vaccines will not encourage the mutation of a super killer bug like TJdiver is worried about.

[mm2002]

Originally Posted by Foo2

I'm not sure if I'll get it. I'm a little nervous about my unborn baby and myself being a guinea pig for the CDC. It's hard to know what to do.

That's a tough decision Foo. I sympathize with ya. I'm not sure what I would do in that situation either.

[navyhmc]

On the Thimerasol issue, the purported link between it and autism has recently been diproven. There has been no significant difference between autism rates before and after the Thimerasol ban.

But that said, I do understand your reluctance Foo2 and hope the best for both of you!

The biggest gripe I have had on the whole H1N1 vaccine scare is the fact that the experimental title that the vaccine has been branded with is truly unfairly given. It's production is esseentially the same as any other flu vaccine that has been given in recent times. My very basic understanding is that CDC/WHO decide which flu strains will be the most prevalent in the coming year and those strains (usually 3-5) are produced into the vaccine. Had H1N1 reared it's ungly head about 3 months earlier, it would have been included in the current annual flu vaccine. As it is, it's essentially a single strain flu vaccine. The same safegurads have to be in place for it as there are for the annual.

I'm now 5 days post vaccine and have had no more problems...only hope it takes so to speak.

[scubadiver888]

We are still waiting for the H1N1 flu shot to be readily available. They have been giving it out for two weeks but high risk people get it first. They switch product to a version safe for pregnant women. So there is a shortage right now. Product of the regular vaccine will resume next week.

I'm kind of wondering if I need it now. On October 25th I felt like someone had hit me in the face with a bat. Had a fever, body aches that moved around (shoulder, lower back, hands, etc.). Bad bowel movements, dehydrated but no vomiting. Fell asleep driving home; fortunately it was at a red light and my foot didn't slip off the brake. Stayed home and took time off work. Just slept for most the day. Around 4 days later I was feeling well enough to realize I just how bad I was.

I'm still short of breath and have a dry cough. It was definitely some sort of flu. I usually kick these things in 3 days. I'm on day 10 and still not feeling okay.

[Lulubelle]

Originally Posted by crandf

Correct me if I am wrong, but vaccines work by introducing your body to a dead or inactivated form of a dangerous disease agent, such that your body develops defenses that is effective against the dangerous disease without actually having to contract the disease first. So just-in-case vaccines will not encourage the mutation of a super killer bug like TJdiver is worried about.

There are both live and killed virus vaccines. Nasal one is live, shot is killed. Live vaccines may work a tad better but are not safe for immunocompromised people which includes pregnant women. No chance of mutant viruses. These viruses are different every year, don't mutate in the same way that bacteria do in the presence of antibiotics.

Originally Posted by navyhmc

The biggest gripe I have had on the whole H1N1 vaccine scare is the fact that the experimental title that the vaccine has been branded with is truly unfairly given. It's production is esseentially the same as any other flu vaccine that has been given in recent times. My very basic understanding is that CDC/WHO decide which flu strains will be the most prevalent in the coming year and those strains (usually 3-5) are produced into the vaccine. Had H1N1 reared it's ungly head about 3 months earlier, it would have been included in the current annual flu vaccine. As it is, it's essentially a single strain flu vaccine. The same safegurads have to be in place for it as there are for the annual.

Yep, Listen to navy, this is no more experimental than they ever are. That is why they don't ever have studies in women who are preggers, there is not enough time.

[TJDiver]

Originally Posted by Lulubelle

There are both live and killed virus vaccines. Nasal one is live, shot is killed. Live vaccines may work a tad better but are not safe for immunocompromised people which includes pregnant women. No chance of mutant viruses. These viruses are different every year, don't mutate in the same way that bacteria do in the presence of antibiotics.

Yep, Listen to navy, this is no more experimental than they ever are. That is why they don't ever have studies in women who are preggers, there is not enough time.

If the viruses are "different" each year, then they either mutate or they are brand spankin' new creatures? I would tend to believe they are mutations, rather than a new life form on such a regular schedule. I'm not trying to claim the vaccines mutate them, but something causes the mutations. Can you provide any insight on that? And, I'm not be a wiseguy...I'd really like to know.

[John Yaskowich]

Originally Posted by TJDiver

If the viruses are "different" each year, then they either mutate or they are brand spankin' new creatures? I would tend to believe they are mutations, rather than a new life form on such a regular schedule. I'm not trying to claim the vaccines mutate them, but something causes the mutations. Can you provide any insight on that? And, I'm not be a wiseguy...I'd really like to know.

I am not a doctor but…

Most vaccines work by making the body sensitive to select proteins in the virus. Lets say that last year the gene sequences for the flu in the vaccine were “abcdefghi” and they used “abc” as the “marker”. That virus later combines with another virus and swaps some gene sequences (often using a pig or bird as the petri dish) and we get a virus with the genes “ab1234ghi”. The “abc” marker from last year has lost a lot of its commonality with the new strain so they need to cook a new vaccine that has markers “ab1” or maybe “34g” if that marker is more widespread in the flu viruses in the wild.

The H1N1 is totally out of left field so the “abc” from last year and the “xyz” from 2 yrs ago are almost totally useless against it. That is why it is so contagious – people do not have even partial immunity via previous exposures.

A simplified explanation but I hope it gets the idea across.

[scubadiver888]

Originally Posted by TJDiver

If the viruses are "different" each year, then they either mutate or they are brand spankin' new creatures? I would tend to believe they are mutations, rather than a new life form on such a regular schedule. I'm not trying to claim the vaccines mutate them, but something causes the mutations. Can you provide any insight on that? And, I'm not be a wiseguy...I'd really like to know.

Mutations are part of life. This is what Darwin's Natural Selection is all about. As far as I know, no one has been able to determine why they happen. Every so often a mutation will occur. If the mutation is better equipment to survive then it will survive. After a while, the mutation will be the norm and the old norm will die off because it did not adapt to a changing environment.

I have heard people say that by create a vaccine to eliminate the current strain of influenza we are making it possible for mutations to survive. Without our intervention, people would normally contract the current strain and it would take years for everyone to develop an immunity to it or die. In other words, it might last a few years before dying out. By vaccinating and forcing its death, the mutations have no competition and can start flourishing in a shorter time period.

The overall affect of vaccine is that influenza mutates much more quickly but less people are exposed to the current strain and therefore deaths are reduced.

Is this a vicious cycle that will catch up to us in the long run? Maybe.

[navyhmc]

Originally Posted by TJDiver

If the viruses are "different" each year, then they either mutate or they are brand spankin' new creatures? I would tend to believe they are mutations, rather than a new life form on such a regular schedule. I'm not trying to claim the vaccines mutate them, but something causes the mutations. Can you provide any insight on that? And, I'm not be a wiseguy...I'd really like to know.

Do they mutate or are they brand new? Yes! The mutations are 99.999% natural in origin. A virus thrives by introducing it's DNA into susceptible cells so additional copies of the flu virus will be produced. Those virus cells will then move to other cells and the process starts over. Since it's combining with the DNA of the host critter, some mutation occurs with every transmission-though it's usually a very minute change virus speaking.

Another way to look at it is: You and I both get the same flu variant from the office as Donna* didn't wach her hands before touching the water cooler. Since you and I have different DNA, or at least I hope we do, the resulting flu viruses that both of us shed will be minutely different, though in most cases, even crack viral scientist would take years to discern a difference. If there is for some reason a notable mutation, it may still be specific vaccine susceptible.

*(Fictious co-worker-no implications to anyone named Donna, either living or imagined.)

Most of the flu that is transmissable to humans-and thankfully there are few that are-have a natural muatation year to year. Most are also avian in origin with somewhere in the area of 20% being swine in origin, hence the Avain flu scare from a few years ago and the current swine flu variant now. Though H1N1 is a better descriptor.