walter kidde tanks

[diverdad]

well it started about 3 years ago. my bought my ow class and gear i used the lds equipment for certification so i did not pay attention to my new(used tank). well a few weeks ago i planned on doing some local dives so i took my tank in to inspected and have it hydro tested. well the problem started after my first dive and went to refill my tank. they refused to refill it because it was a walter kidde made in 1987. needless to say i was upset because i had just had it tested. i e-mailed my lds and this is what he said(i have removed the names to protect all who are involved)

I am sorry that you were MIS INFORMED!!! XXXX does not know what they are talking about as the DOT Laws state that the Tanks have to now be ECT Tested and Yours was. and then It passed a Hydro as well. Your Tank is in PERFECT Condition and can be filled anywhere in the USA. We no longer go to XXXX as they are IDIOTS.

i would appreciate your replies and your advise( most larry's and his crew's)

[Flatliner]

This probably won't help, but I have heard that most shops in the Keys at least won't fill tanks that are from that period regardless of test status.

[NitroWill]

Not just in the Keys, must shops anywhere in Florida wont fill ANY tanks made before the 90s..

[CrzyJay456]

didn't larry say that he wont fill any aluminum tanks from before 90 or something like that?
some problem with the aluminum??

[scubasamurai]

i just saw my dive shop won;t fill anything pre 1990 or earlier, bad blood or something sorry dude . maybe post those tanks on ebay with all those chinese made toys

[NitroWill]

Originally Posted by CrzyJay456

didn't larry say that he wont fill any aluminum tanks from before 90 or something like that?
some problem with the aluminum??

Most shops wont..
Take a look at the Luxfer thread in this forum and itll give a little more insight why

[JahJahwarrior]

This is a very very very very very very very common topic. If you do a search here, you might find some threads on it. Scubaboard, though, probably has HUNDREDS. Not all are useful, but some of them have VERY thoughtful information, and the RIGHT information, from credible sources. I'd really suggest you go over there and start reading.



The long and short of it is, you are probably SOL with the tank. It will be a hassle for you no matter where you go. "ECT" is eddy current testing. As for "perfect condition," that's not necessarily true. A crappy inspector can very well miss signs of cracks, and these older tanks ARE known to crack. I am not 100% certain, but I believe Walter Kidde no longer makes scuba tanks, and when they did, they used the 6351 alloy, which is the alloy known to have problems with SLC, sustain load cracking. Most shops down in Florida will not fill these, because there have been explosions and deaths, if your tank happened to explode, anyone damaged could sue the shop for gross neglicence. "So Scuba Store, are you telling me that the DOT has reccomended that these tanks be filled only when no one else is in the store (And, the DOT HAS reccomended that only one person bein the vicinity when filling these older tanks, I am 99.9% certain I read that in the DOT document posted on Scubaboard.), and that there have been several explosions and deaths from filling these types of cylinders in your very own state, and you still filled it?????" Therefore, even though the danger is not exceedingly high, most shops are on dangerous ground if they fill it.

To buy a new tankis rather cheap, $150 is the most I'd pay for an AL 80, and I want to say Leisure Pro has them for $115 on sale right now. That's cheaper than a good wetsuit. I wouldn't bother dealing with the tank, but there are some people who use their own fill stations and inspect their own tanks that might be willing to but it. Also, I understand you can take the tank to a scrap shop and get some money for the metal. In my opinion, coming from someone who owned one of these cylinders a year ago, and now has two new al 100's ($125 each, on sale), it's not worth the hassle or potential safety risk.

[in_cavediver]

What JahJah said is dead on. Ultimately, it doesn't matter whether your specific tank is perfect. The material its made of is flawed, we know it is and most importantly, the risk reward isn't there for a dive operator. Also note that the last meeting of the DOT when they discussed options and added Eddy Current testing, many more draconian options were ruled out simply because of 'self policing' and the 'increased dropout' rate of these tanks.

Look at it this way. Why should I, a fill operator, fill a tank that has a history of failure for an at best break even proposition? Also, we know the risk of failure is remote, but when it occurs, it has devastating effects. Again, why risk it for a break even at best proposition?

It starts making more sense when you look at from the other guys perspective.

[ScaredSilly]

Ad nauseum

Read this:
http://hazmat.dot.gov/pubs/reports/c...l_advisory.pdf

If a cylinder falls under the above, then the next hydro ya gotta do this:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf97/411928_web.pdf

Anything else out there is BS.

QED

That said a store can do whatever they damn well please - however it may not please you or them.

[ScaredSilly]

Originally Posted by in_cavediver

The material its made of is flawed

A nit-pick here. The material is not flawed. 6351 is still used today, just not for high pressure cylinders. The usage of this material in scuba cylinders was found not to be ideal because of the long terms affects and SLC. You could say the choice of materials was found to be flawed - just like one can say the decision to cut square holes instead of rounded holes in aluminum airplane skins was found to be flawed.

BTW - the new eddy current test is ONLY for SCUBA, SCBA, and O2 cylinders. My older CO2 cylinder is not subject to the eddy current test. However, I had it eddy tested as well.