Safety, where do you draw the line??

[Puffer Fish]

In thinking about the issue of where does one's responsibility start.. or end, one of the things I notice is the giant difference between some new divers and some of the experienced ones. So, a couple of questions, that I hope some of both sides will answer:

1. Are you responsible for providing a safety warning with any advice you give? Should every, "well, the way to do this is.........." be followed by "But, if you do that, you need to (get more training, practice it or watch out for_____)

2. You are on a boat, getting ready for your dive, when you notice the person next to you has a major safety issue... Should you say anything? Should it be "nice"?

3. You are on a boat, and the insta-buddy they gave you has major issues (more than one)...now do you say anything? Refuse to dive with them?

4. That insta buddy tells you to go to a warm place... you still diving with them?

5. What if the person that had the "issue", did get into trouble... would you save them?

Note: Keeping in mind that a rescue may endanger you.

I know what I do... as 5 times this year, I have given up my primary reg to someone that had major quality issue with their's (usually from not maintaining it), 3 times I have loaned someone a dive computer.

Not sure the number of times I have told someone that they were way over weighted, and once actually told someone I would not dive with them because their vest had some strange tape job on it. (I'm not including the number of inflater valves, o-rings and straps I have given out).

I would guess to some, my jerk factor is off the charts... Ok world, time to pile on!!!

[RoadRacer1978]

Ok, heres a new diver perspective for ya. Do I believe that any of us has a responsibility to prevent anyone from hurting themselves? I can't really say for sure, but I believe our concious would say we do.
This is how I decide whether or not to say something to someone else about a sefety issue. I ask myslef if I see someone with an unsafe issue. If I say nothing and they die, could I sleep at night. Would my concious be clear. I personally could not sleep at night if I knew that I could have done something and didn't. So what if the person gets mad, so what if they don't change the problem or their behaivor. I have done what I could and I can sleep better at night if something happens to them.

Heres a poem I received in a safety class at work that sums up my statements above.

http://www.campus.manchester.ac.uk/h..._other_way.pdf


I Chose to Look the Other Way
I could have saved a life that day,
But I chose to look the other way.
It wasn't that I didn't care,
I had the time, and I was there.
But I didn't want to seem a fool,
Or argue over a safety rule.
I knew he'd done the job before,
If I called it wrong, he might get sore.
The chances didn't seem that bad,
I've done the same, he knew I had.
So I shook my head and walked on by,
He knew the risks as well as I.
He took a chance, I closed an eye,
And with that act I let him die.
I could have saved a life that day,
But I chose to look the other way.

Now every time I see his wife,
I'll know I should have saved his life.
That guilt is something I must bear,
But it isn't something you need to share.

If you see a risk that others take,
That puts their health or life at stake,
The question asked, or the thing you say,
Could help them live another day.

If you see a risk and walk away,
Then hope you never have to say,
I could have saved a life that day,
But I chose to look the other way.

By Don Merrell

[Puffer Fish]

ok, so you tell them... and they tell you to shove it. Would you then save them if they got in trouble??? Afterall, you told them not to do it.. and why risk your life?

[RoadRacer1978]

Being an ex-Police Officer, yeah I'd risk my life to save theirs. Thats just something programmed into my DNA though. Not everyone will feel the same way and if you could not rescue someone without causing great injury or death to yourself I don't think anyone should blame you for not trying.

[Puffer Fish]

Real example: (about 4 months ago)... I am assigned an insta-buddy... we go over a few communication issues.. equipment issues, and I ask, if I needed air, which reg he would donate. He hands me his octo.. I breath thru it.. I would have been better off with a McDonald's straw. I say "You don't really expect me to breath thru this, right?. They say.."why? I thought it was working fine". I hand them my reg.. they go "Oh my g...." and after a little discussion, I loan them my reg and I use my backup. But what if they tell me to get lost.. what to do then?

[RoadRacer1978]

Well, since this is the regulator he is donating to you and your safety would be in jeopardy I'd refuse to dive with him unless we got the problem fixed to suit me. If he went to be someone elses buddy and had not got the probelm fixed I'd give them a warning.

[Puffer Fish]

Originally Posted by RoadRacer1978

Well, since this is the regulator he is donating to you and your safety would be in jeopardy I'd refuse to dive with him unless we got the problem fixed to suit me. If he went to be someone elses buddy and had not got the probelm fixed I'd give them a warning.

Where you and I would differ is that I would have done everything in my power to stop them from diving that day. Once I knew of the issue (and their primary was in the same condition), I first tried to get them to no use it, but had that not worked I would have had a very ugly, boat sized conflict. However, they let me loan them one of mine, so it went away.

Oddly, I think I am being very intrusive by doing so...

[RoadRacer1978]

Intrusive yes. But that just shows that you care. I am sure you have seen alot more mishaps than you'd care to talk about and that is probably one reason you are so admit about stepping in. You have seen what can happen and you don't want it to happen to anyone else. Personally I like that characteristic and hope if there is ever something I miss or am doing unsafe out of ignorance someone will step in and let me know. So long as they don't try to belittle me in the process I take critisism well.

[Puffer Fish]

Originally Posted by RoadRacer1978

Intrusive yes. But that just shows that you care. I am sure you have seen alot more mishaps than you'd care to talk about and that is probably one reason you are so admit about stepping in. You have seen what can happen and you don't want it to happen to anyone else. Personally I like that characteristic and hope if there is ever something I miss or am doing unsafe out of ignorance someone will step in and let me know. So long as they don't try to belittle me in the process I take critisism well.

Well, first off, it has to be a real, major issue, not something I think should be done some specific way.

This is terrible to say... but I think I do it for very selfish reasons... I just don't want to go thru one more life or death struggle for two people (the person and the rescuer), if I can avoid it.

I have even loaned some total stranger on a boat my BC, when their's had a rip in it, just to avoid having them attempt to dive with it (they were)..

I don't carry spare parts for me, as I never need them (on a day trip), I carry them for others so I don't have to deal with the issue in an ugly way. Sick, actually.

[Aussie]

Originally Posted by Puffer Fish

Well, first off, it has to be a real, major issue, not something I think should be done some specific way.

This is terrible to say... but I think I do it for very selfish reasons... I just don't want to go thru one more life or death struggle for two people (the person and the rescuer), if I can avoid it.

I have even loaned some total stranger on a boat my BC, when their's had a rip in it, just to avoid having them attempt to dive with it (they were)..

I don't carry spare parts for me, as I never need them (on a day trip), I carry them for others so I don't have to deal with the issue in an ugly way. Sick, actually.

Puffer Fish,

Do you dive Solo? If you dont maybe its a good time that you did. One of the reasons why i do is the Insta-buddy factor. Do you trust them or their gear? Do they have the experience as you do? Will they last long on their air as you do? If something goes wrong will they be a help or a hindrance?

It leaves you out with not having to supply gear when you really shouldnt.

Aussie