Here's the plan...Whatcha think?

[thesmoothdome]

Finally decided to get back into UW photography. The last time I shot pictures the Nikonos V was the camera of choice and slide film cost a fortune for each dive trip. To top it off, the only time I shot pictures was when I was underwater, so naturally, I had very limited knowledge of photography in general.

Anyway, I decided to try my hand at the new generation of photography. I already purchased a Canon Rebel Xti and plan on purchasing an Ikelite housing, an Ikelite DS51 strobe, a 60mm macro lens, a 10-24 wide angle lens, a flat port for the macro lens, and a superwide dome port for the WA lens.

Will I want/need anything else? Would you recommend something else? How will this kit + a couple of land lenses travel?

[Puffer Fish]

Well, it is an excellent camera, and a great case...and it is big and it takes some knowledge to use.. and can take great pictures.. Traveling with it requires a case to protect the UW case...and it is a bit bulky. You might want to consider a lens like the 17 - 40 (which would be a 27 mm - 64mm equa. on that camera. It focuses down to around an inch, and would cover a fairly wide angle. There my be other, similar lens, but the point would be to just use one.

Different camera? Well, the Nikon series is great. so any consideration has to include them.

The Oly and Sony are also nice DSLR's But any 10 meg or larger DSLR is going to be nice, it comes down to the case and how easy the case is to use.

Oh, and don't forget a giant memory card.

Originally Posted by thesmoothdome

Finally decided to get back into UW photography. The last time I shot pictures the Nikonos V was the camera of choice and slide film cost a fortune for each dive trip. To top it off, the only time I shot pictures was when I was underwater, so naturally, I had very limited knowledge of photography in general.

Anyway, I decided to try my hand at the new generation of photography. I already purchased a Canon Rebel Xti and plan on purchasing an Ikelite housing, an Ikelite DS51 strobe, a 60mm macro lens, a 10-24 wide angle lens, a flat port for the macro lens, and a superwide dome port for the WA lens.

Will I want/need anything else? Would you recommend something else? How will this kit + a couple of land lenses travel?

[Aussie]

Originally Posted by thesmoothdome

Anyway, I decided to try my hand at the new generation of photography. I already purchased a Canon Rebel Xti and plan on purchasing an Ikelite housing, an Ikelite DS51 strobe, a 60mm macro lens, a 10-24 wide angle lens, a flat port for the macro lens, and a superwide dome port for the WA lens.

Will I want/need anything else? Would you recommend something else? How will this kit + a couple of land lenses travel?

Congratulations on entering the wonderful world of dSLR.

Firstly I have a similar setup but in with a Nikon d80 as my camera of choice instead of your Canon.

60mm macro lens with flat port is an excellent choice and is my Favourite. You can great shots in any condition (low or high vis). Its a easy lens to use once you get your head around the settings. I start with ISO100, 1/80th, f20. This gives a nice depth of field and black background with crisp clear marco shots.

I also use the 8 inch ikelite dome port. Behind this port I use the Tokina 10-17mm lens and the Sigma 17-70mm lens. I believe the 10-24mm lens are normally very expensive (Nikon ones are anyway). The tokina lens is a awesome lens and is priced very well (aproxi $400). I have some examples in my pictures. My wreck and Grey Nurse sharks shots are taken with the 10-17mm Tokina. The 8inch dome port is the only real choice when using the 10-17mm lens and you even have to take the shades off the port as they show up in shots.
The 17-70mm Sigma lens is also and excellent lens at a great price. I havnt had much time to have a good play with it. Its a general purpose and jack of all trades. You can shot from WA and then change to macro. I have it behind the 8 inch dome so it can be a pain when taking close ups.

I would not recommend the DS51 strobe as it is underpowered and has not got a wide spread which is required in the wide angle lens. It will work well with macro but you be looking for more with wide angle.
I strongly recommend the DS125 strobe and further more getting two of them. Having two large strobes will give you the cover required with wide angle shots and also helps alot with shadow with macro they also provide the grunt you need.
If you can not afford two ds125's to start with I would at least buy one and also the dual strobe sync cord to use when you do buy the second strobe. I use the ikelite 1.25inch ball arms which they use for the larger ds200 strobes. They are a little bit more in price but they are nice and long when you need to go wide for wide angle and fold up well when using in macro when compared with the standard 1inch ball arms. Of course there are other arm setups worth looking at like ultralite etc etc.

Other recommendation is extra batteries for the ds125 strobes. You roughly get 250 shots out of them which can be done on a single dive. If your doing a double dive for example you need to have a spare battery for each strobe. On a liveaboard I have fuly charged batteries on the strobes and the other two on charge. They take about 45minutes to an hour to charge from dead. The ikelite ds125 battery charger is great as it comes with different sockets for different countries and is multi wattage for different power supply.

In the case of memory cards just buy the large capcity ones like 8gig or more. Its alot easier that having heaps of smaller ones. You can get a whole days diving on one card with a 8 gig card.

I also have a cooler bag which I put my setup in when I am on a boat. I fold everything up and its in a nice padded bag which only costs $10-15 from k-mart.

I pack the whole setup in a Pelican 1620 case which will hold everything. its a larger case but you know its protected well when travelling. Can be a pain when flying as it will weight about 25kg loaded. Expect excess baggage on international flights.

Any more questions send me a pm.

Aussie

[cummings66]

My Xti will only store about 50 raw photo's on a 1 gig card so you can see that the largest card you can buy will be best. I would say nothing smaller than 4 gigs would be acceptable unless you shoot jpg's which I wouldn't suggest.

[Puffer Fish]

I like Aussie's suggestion on the sigma lens. It would give you macro, and reasonable wide angle.

And actually, I really like spending someone else's money...

But consider this - you stick a couple of DS125's and an 8 inch doom and you have one major big, heavy unit.

Now add it some lens, some ports, a bunch of other stuff... if you are going to do that, then don't get a rebel... get yourself a 5D. (I would suggest the latest Mark III, but could not find a housing for it).

If it were me, I would not get Ike strobes... don't like the weight issue, or the narrow beam some of them have. I actually think you can save some money, get better strobs and have a smaller package.

If it were me, I would would not initially get a 8 inch dome. As a note, don't do macro with that item, as touching coral or rocks is really bad for it.

Note: it is true, that were you live, if the water is clear, the sun shining and you are in kelp, you can take some amazing wide angle shots, but you will also miss being able to take a lot more other images.

I would get that sigma lens, and configure the system first to learn all the technology and then, if I wanted to get the other items, I would.

[Puffer Fish]

Originally Posted by cummings66

My Xti will only store about 50 raw photo's on a 1 gig card so you can see that the largest card you can buy will be best. I would say nothing smaller than 4 gigs would be acceptable unless you shoot jpg's which I wouldn't suggest.

Yea, major issue. And one should note that memory cards, are for the most part really reliable, but around 10% seem to fail shortly after being used the first few times. So getting one and then going on a trip is not advised.

I have an 8gig on my P&S...and 2 backup cards.

I would recommend something in the 16 gig or so size (or several 8 gig) as a minimum

[thesmoothdome]

I've got a 2 gig that came with the kit and planned to pick up at least a couple of 8 gigs before leaving the country.

In regards to the strobe issue, weight is definately a factor. I think my bags are restricted to 20kg for the PNG trip. I don't mind paying a baggage fee, but obviously, I'd prefer not to. Not to mention, I'm pretty much a lazy bastard and traveling light makes me happy. What strobes would you suggest? Will they sync with the Canon and Ikelite housing or should I consider a different housing.

I've been reading a lot of good things about the Tokina 10-17mm and was leaning towards that for the WA side of things. Any idea how much the whole rig would weigh with the 8"inch dome and any of the strobes you'd recommend?

Thanks for the help guys. I'd like to get everything together by April so I have some time to learn with the rig before I leave for PNG. Your information has been invaluable.

[Puffer Fish]

Originally Posted by thesmoothdome

I've got a 2 gig that came with the kit and planned to pick up at least a couple of 8 gigs before leaving the country.

In regards to the strobe issue, weight is definately a factor. I think my bags are restricted to 20kg for the PNG trip. I don't mind paying a baggage fee, but obviously, I'd prefer not to. Not to mention, I'm pretty much a lazy bastard and traveling light makes me happy. What strobes would you suggest? Will they sync with the Canon and Ikelite housing or should I consider a different housing.

I've been reading a lot of good things about the Tokina 10-17mm and was leaning towards that for the WA side of things. Any idea how much the whole rig would weigh with the 8"inch dome and any of the strobes you'd recommend?

Thanks for the help guys. I'd like to get everything together by April so I have some time to learn with the rig before I leave for PNG. Your information has been invaluable.

Well, I like S&S, mostly because scubatoys sells them, and Inon. After buying one YS110, I am getting another, but you could go with one of their other strobes and save a few dollars. You need some sort of TTL, but I don't think you will have any problems. One of the advantages of S&S strobes, besides having a wider flash, with roughtly the same power as the 125, is that they weigh around 2 lbs less (each) (there seems to be some issue as to whether or not the posted weight includes batteries).

The 125 shows a shorter recycle time, but we are talking at maximum power, and test I have done so far with the 110, would indicate it is less than half the rated time.

[Aussie]

Originally Posted by Puffer Fish

Well, I like S&S, mostly because scubatoys sells them, and Inon. After buying one YS110, I am getting another, but you could go with one of their other strobes and save a few dollars. You need some sort of TTL, but I don't think you will have any problems. One of the advantages of S&S strobes, besides having a wider flash, with roughtly the same power as the 125, is that they weigh around 2 lbs less (each) (there seems to be some issue as to whether or not the posted weight includes batteries).

The 125 shows a shorter recycle time, but we are talking at maximum power, and test I have done so far with the 110, would indicate it is less than half the rated time.

You will have no problems with an ikelite housing and ikelite DS125 strobes as they offer true TTL (Both Canon & Nikon) when used with a digital sync cord.
Yes coverage is more with Sea & Sea 105 degrees compared to 100 degrees with Ikelite. But with the use of dual strobes this isnt an issue.

I believe that St also sells ikelite gear but you have to email them for a price.

I weighed my setup: Ikelite housing, 2x Ikelite DS125 strobes, 2x 1.25inch ball arms and dual sync cord, 8 inch dome port without the camer in it and it was around the 9kg mark. Please note I weighed the setup on the bathroom scales so its not that accurate.

Yes Ikelite DS125 has a 1 second recycle rate which is one of the fastest around when compared to the YS-110 with its 3-6 second recycle rate (6 second with Alkaline batteries). This fast recycle rate at full dump is good for 250 shots. But using TTL you strobe isnt performing full dump with every shot. I change my batteries anyway after every dive.

Yes the Ikelite with dual ikelite ds125 strobes is a larger and heavy setup but thats what you expect when you start shooting dSLR. There are heavier setups out there also. In the water the setup is slightly negatitive. Adding some foam to try and get a neutral bouyancy is a great idea. You can get away with one strobe if your just doing macro work but you need two with wide angle.

Flying into PNG with extra dive and camera gear isnt as bad as everyone says it is. They give you more allowance with dive gear and camera gear. I have friends that work up there (PNG) and they bring back alot of gear without any issues. They just ask at the airport "Divegear" and you nod you head "Yes, dive gear".

The 8 inch dome is expensive but when you compare to buying different 6 inch ports for each different lens isnt that bad. Its the only port that gives a wide angle lens like 10mm justice.

You better off buying a serious strobe/s first out as you wont be looking to upgrade down the line. I used the Ds50 with my Olympus 7070 and it was soon replaced with the ds125 as it much more power and angle of coverage. Looking back I wish is just had of bought the DS125 first. These strobe will not be updated very often and you will most likely be replacing your camera and housing 3-4 times before you need to update your dome ports and strobes.


Check out some of my pictures as there is a fair few taken on the 60mm macro (nikon of course) and the 10-17mm Tokina.

Aussie

[Puffer Fish]

Aussie, to a person starting with Dslr, 19 -20 lbs is a lot.

Also, there are a couple of issues with the D125 and TTL, ones you may not have incountered (more on this in another thread).

My testing so far on the 110 (which I would not necessarly recommend for him) is around 1.5 second recycle time (does anyone really use regular batteries). with 2900 rechargables. I stopped testing at 200 flashes.

If you are going to use the 10mm lens, then the dome is needed... but that is a lens that requires very specific conditions, and I don't know if he has them.

You reference PNG rules (and yea, I have not had any issues there either) is valid, but that is not the case everywhere. Does not work like that in the Cayman's, for example.

I would still suggest getting a short range zoom, with macro, and learn the equipment, before investing in a lot of stuff they may or may not use.

Looking at your images, you have some excellent ones, you tend to over use strobes (really common dual strobe, DSLR issue). For the most part, you need less flash, not more. I would be turning down your strobes by around 2 f stops worth of light.

The which is a better strobe issue, by the way, is sort of like the split fin or BP/W issues... subject to endless debate.

I like strobes that are light in the water, so that I have to put a small amount of weight on the camera... that way, the whole unit wants to be upright. You can shoot with one hand then... which allows for moving the strobes around if you need to. Heavy strobes and foam on the camera will result in a unit that wants to be upside down.

To learn the system and his own skills, nothing works as well as using one setup for a while, until they decide they need something else. Just, as you point out, don't buy equipment that you will be throwing away later.