U/W Video Suitable for Travel

[thesmoothdome]

After seeing the San Diego Underwater Film Festival a few weeks ago, I've decided to jump into U/W video before next year's trip to PNG.

I've read through what's here and on a few other U/W video sites and can honestly say I'm completely confused. So for sake of a video newb, please allow me to explain what I think I'm looking for and offer suggestions. I'm not even sure if my expectations are reasonable, so please don't feel like you need to pull punches.

Here's what I'm looking for:

HD tape based video camera. My limited understanding at this point is that this will provide the best quality. It looks like a decent Sony, like the FX1, can be had for about $1200.00

Universal housing. If I need to switch camcorders, I'll be able to go to a new model (realistic?) Maybe $1000 to $1500. Many seem to come with a wide angle port.

Lights (2). $1200.00 for the Top Dawg lights. Are the cheaper alternatives?

I'm thinking I can get away with a total bill of $3000-$3500. Is this possible?

With a hard case, is this suitable for airline travel without paying extra charges. Obviously, I'll stll need to travel with my regular dive gear and would like to bring my lap top with me as well in order to do some editing while on board the boat.

Can I even use a 1.83 dual core processor for HD video editing or should I ditch the laptop to save weight?

What am I not thinking of or about?

Sorry to be so vague and uninformed. I'm just starting this process and am realizing that even though I don't need to have everything until next summer, I'm woefully unprepared to purchase anything.

Thanks for the help.

[diversteve]

so please don't feel like you need to pull punches.

I didn't - long post, even longer reply..lol

Originally Posted by thesmoothdome

It looks like a decent Sony, like the FX1, can be had for about $1200.00

Seriously, there's no way that's possible.

If you're seeing the ExpressCameras.com Google price, I'd suggest you look them up on resellerratings.com where they average .98 (not 9.8) on a scale of 1-10 in customer satisfaction. Anyone selling an FX1 for much under $3000 is doing a bait/switch or selling grey-market or used gear. You don't want to go there.

The FX1 lists on Sonystyle.com for $3699. A legitimate dealer like B&H Photo/Video currently sells it for $3199...

The FX1 and newer FX7 are 3chip high end prosumer camcorders. A housing for them will start at around $4400 up to $9K or more, depending on features and optics. And they're quite large.

My suggestion would be a single chip HDV camcorder like the Sony HDR-HC series or the Canon HV20. JVC has a new one out also, HD7?

They're smaller, lighter and output a 1080I signal almost as good as 3-chip models. Housings start at $900 to about $3200 depending on features/optics.

Universal housing. If I need to switch camcorders, I'll be able to go to a new model

Only within the Sony line.

(realistic)

Probably. Sony provides LANC ports on most of their higher end models so a "universal" electronic housing can likely house any future models with the same physical dimensions.

Example: I shoot an HDR-HC1 in an Amphibico EVO housing. All the newer HDR-HC models, including DVD and HDD models still fit and work in my housing. Look at their website, you'll see little difference between models - with one exception - the HVR-A1U model has a mechanical white balance control since there's a button on the front of the camera that can be assigned for it.

Or a housing like the TopDawg will work with any smaller Sony camera that will fit inside it. But it has no Manual White Balance control with the newer HC-series camcorders. And from what I've read it's extremely hard to read the HC7's viewfinder inside the housing. So then add $700 for their LCD back. Higher priced models from Ocean Images or Seatools will do MWB, but they do it mechanically.

Not that MWB is a showstopper, my EVO doesn't have it and I do alright. Might have to do more color-correction during editing although I get some pretty acceptable results just letting the camera AutoWB. I typically shoot in the Caribbean where there's a lot of light.

The FX1/FX7 are too big to fit into any universal housing that's made. With the exception of the Equinox Pro-Pak 10. But that's built camera specific since it's a mechanical housing.

Maybe $1000 to $1500. Many seem to come with a wide angle port.

By their very nature, "Universal" housings have some limitations. In the price range you mention it would be a lower optical quality port. I think the port on my EVO is roughly around $600, but it's a 55' port as compared to the Fathoms 90' SWP-25 at $2699. Granted that's a much better, wider port, a better comparison to mine would be the FP44 at about $800.

Lights (2). $1200.00 for the Top Dawg lights. Are the cheaper alternatives?

Not that I've seen...but I don't use lights so I'm not up on what's available. I think a set of Nightrider's start around $2700 so that's probably as good as you'll do.

I'm thinking I can get away with a total bill of $3000-$3500. Is this possible?

My whole rig including chargers, extra batteries etc. was just about that. Probably the least expensive would be in the ballpark of $2100 to maybe $4500 with an L&M Bluefin housing. 3-chip you're looking at upwards of $7K for an entry level package w/o lights.

Add $1200 for the Topdawg lights and you're in the $4K ballpark. Less with a less expensive housing option like the TopDawg or Ocean Images.

With a hard case, is this suitable for airline travel without paying extra charges.

My EVO and HC1 travel in my carry-on roller bag with room to spare. The Seatool is so much smaller that I think it would fit in a standard camcorder bag with room left over. Otoh, this is what Gates says about their FX7 housing:

The FX7 housing with SP44 port and 1620 Pelican case weighs in under the 50lb. airline baggage limit.

One other point about Gates, although their housings are mechanical and model specific, I've held their HC7 housing and it's really well thought out and constructed. An added bonus for you is that their factory is in San Diego...

A pro videographer once told me: If you drop a poly housing, let it hit your foot. If you drop a Gates, move your foot fast, the housing will be fine.

Can I even use a 1.83 dual core processor for HD video editing or should I ditch the laptop to save weight?

Big maybe... It partly depends on the speed of your hard drive. My Vaio with a 2.2GHZ processor won't reliably capture HD - Vegas Movie Studio Platinum usually won't even try. They recommend a 2.8GHZ processor. Premier Elements is looking for a 3 GHZ P4 or equivalent. Plus 1GB ram minimum. But I don't have a dual-core so I don't know how that compensates.

Unless you have a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD burner in the laptop, you'll be outputting in SD anyway. But if you can capture in HD, the output will be much better. I do have some footage on my laptop that I captured in SD, my photographer buddy commented on the quality difference compared to MiniDV(SD) footage he's seen. Take a look at the Stage6 website for some really high quality HDV footage using Divx compression. Ronscuba posts his work there - he shoots an FX7 in a Gates housing.

Next time you're in the LA area, stop in at H2OPhotopros and speak to Mike Luzansky. He sold me my gear after spending more than 1/2 hr. on the phone answering all my questions one day.

hth, feel free to ask other questions. Also there's the Videography forum on Scubaboard and the Video Gear forum on WetPixel - some of those guys are a lot more serious than I am.

[thesmoothdome]

Thanks for the input steve! Being around the scuba industry for the last 18 years or so, I'm not surprised that there are shady camera dealers. I noticed the fluctuation between prices on the FX1, but like all consumers, seeing a difference of 2K on prices intrigued me. Seems like there are a lot of sites selling them "new with warranty" for around $1200.00, but I've been around long enough to know you get what you pay for in the end. Even if I was able to procure a FX1 for $1200, spending 4K on a housing is not going to happen. I'm not diving enough or making enough to justify that sort of purchase. I'll definately look at some of the one chip models that you recommend.

I didn't even consider the HD-DVD burner issue. Even if I carry my huge laptop, I'd have to upgrade my burner, so it seems to make sense just to shoot tape and edit upon returning home.

As for ports, it sounds like I'll be dropping $600-$800.00 on a wide angle port. While a 90 degree lens sounds nice, $2500 is a bit excessive.

Again, thank you for your response. I'm sure that I'll have a million more questions and appreciate your time.

[diversteve]

I don't know if this is the case, but it's possible that vendors are reducing prices on the FX1 since it may be near it's end of life. But what I googled at $1200 weren't any vendors I'd ever heard of. And I've been buying video gear since the 90's.

If you want to shoot tape and buy a "universal" housing, your choices are the Sony HDR-HC5 or HDR-HC7. Or the HDR-SR5, 7, or 8 which are HDD-based models. But they store in AVCHD format which has it's own challenges - slightly lower output quality and less editing support. And the SR5 has no viewfinder so you'd need an external monitor unless you get the Ocean Images housng which allows you to open the camera LCD. Or the Seatool with the mirror - if they sell an SR5 model.

Regarding the Canon HV20 or JVC HD7 - I forgot to mention that neither has a LANC port. So you'd have to buy a specifically made mechanical housing.

The more money you spend on the housing initially, the more likely it is to have an optically better, wider port. Although every mfg. gives you a good port to begin with. So the $6-800 is included in the cost of the housing.

Gates seems to have more port options than most. And TopDawg has none as theirs is a flat glass port. Partly why they're $900..but you'll get perfectly acceptable results with a flat port also.

[Sarah]

The least expensive we've seen the FX1 advertised is $1450. Like Steve said, these boilerplate NY/N.J. scam outfits are selling a gray market product that when we checked into it and interrogated them, they admitted that they are Japanese labeled products with controls in Japanese.

They come with no charger, no batter, no case, no warranty, no nothing. They call you up to confirm your order then hard sale pressure you into buying FX1 batteries for $200, when the latest genuine Sony NP970's can be had for $50 on E-bay. They try to charge you near $200 for the charger, and if you refuse to buy it all the other nonsense, the videocam mysteriously instantaneously becomes on permanent backorder.

Resign yourself to the reality that an FX1 is going to cost you $3000. If you're angling for an Amphibico housing, better get it now, they are going to stop producing them.

The new compact 3 CMOS chip Sony's offerings are looking REAL interesting, especially if they come with the telemacro feature, as does the coming Sony HDCamEx, about the size of the FX1 but part of Sony's Cine group, and it shoots 1080P.